Monday, February 6, 2017

SECTION 4 - Chris Paul is Not a Top 10 Point Guard of All-Time

Before reading this section, it would be best to read Section 1, Section 2, and Section 3 to get a better understanding of why Chris Paul is so overrated. 

 Section 2 underscores a key point - Chris Paul has more playoff series in which he was outplayed by a notable PG (2009 Billups, 2012 Parker, 2014 Curry, 2014 Westbrook) than vice-versa (2008 Parker and 2016 Lillard). How can someone be a top 5 PG of all-time when he is usually outplayed by opposing PGs from his own era in playoff series?

Here is where we explain in detail why there are so many point guards who deserve a top 10 all-time rank over Paul. First, we'll start off slowly with showing why Paul isn't even a top 5 PG of his era, before going to show why he isn't a top PG of 10 all-time. These PGs are not listed in any particular order of ranking.

1. Russell Westbrook
Westbrook totally exposed and outplayed
Chris Paul in the 2014 WCSF, especially
in the deciding clutch moments of the series

2014 WCSF
Russell Westbrook 28-6-9 on 49% and 50/57 FTs (89%) Chris Paul 23-4-12 on 51% and 18/24 FTs (75%) Westbrook outplayed Chris Paul clearly in the 2014 WCSF. He scored way more and way more efficiently as he went to the line more than twice as much, shooting almost 90%. 

Paul also choked away the eventually deciding game 5 with his 2 turnovers including on the game winning attempt. He fouled Westbrook on his 3pter, so Russell made 3 FTs to take the lead. Westbrook outplayed him in the clutch of the eventually deciding game, further cementing that Westbrook outplayed him for the series. Had Paul not done that epic choke job, the Clippers would have been up 3-2 with Game 6 in LA.

In the 2014/15 season when Durant only played 27 games, Westbrook led a very mediocre supporting cast to 45 wins, even with Westbrook missing 15 games. They were 40-27 when Westbrook played, which is a 49-win pace. The Thunder also missed Ibaka for 18 games on top of that. The 2015 Thunder were worse than any playoff team Paul played on, including the Hornets. 

In the 2016 Playoffs, Russell Westbrook joined - Magic Johnson (3x) - 1986, 1987, 1991 - Kevin Johnson (2x) - 1989, 1990 - Steve Nash (2x) - 2005, 2006 As the only players to average 20-10 (ppg-apg) in a playoff run past the 2nd round. Magic is the only one to do it in a Finals run - 1987 and 1991. 

Paul is clearly vastly inferior to the company that Westbrook joined, (we will go into detail on them in later posts) and this cements Westbrook's superiority over Paul on the team and individual levels as well. Westbrook also became the only player to average 25-10 in a playoff run past the 2nd round in 2016.

With Westbrook outplaying Paul in the 2014 WCSF, and having a 20-10 / 25-10 run past the 2nd round, and putting up a 30-10-10 season, Westbrook is clearly superior to Paul both statistically and in terms of turning a team around. 

Let's not forget that even with Durant, the 2013 Thunder were only 2-2 against the 8-seed Rockets without Westbrook, after going 2-0 with Russell, and then lost in 5 to an average Grizzlies team without Russell to help them out. Had Russell missed the whole first round, OKC would have been in danger of losing to the 8-seed Rockets. Even an MVP Durant greatly missed Westbrook when he wasn't there in the playoffs.

2. Steph Curry
Chris Paul was outplayed by Curry in the 2014
Playoffs, only winning due to having a
superior supporting cast. In 2015 alone, Curry
surpassed Chris Paul's entire career

2014 1st Round 
Steph Curry 23-4-8 on 44% Chris Paul 17-5-9 on 42%

Paul won only because he had the better supporting cast. Curry clearly outplayed him, despite having less help. Curry had to play more minutes obviously, because his 2nd option Klay Thompson was outscored by Jamal Crawford off the bench in 12 less mpg, and because Griffin was the best Clipper in the series putting up 23-6-4 on 53%, taking the pressure off CP3.

CP3 also averaged 3.8 fouls per game in the series, up from his 2014 season average 2.5. With 5+ fouls in 3 of 7 games and 4+ fouls in 4 of 7 games. His inability to defend without foul trouble contributed to Curry's individually superior performance and Paul's lesser minutes compared to Curry. 

In the 2015 Playoff run alone, Curry accomplished more than what Paul has in his entire career. Against the same Rockets team that Paul choked away the 4th quarter of Game 6 and eventually the 3-1 lead, Curry got the job done and put up 31-5-6-2 on 52%. 

And although Iguodala won Finals MVP, Curry was still clearly the best player for the overall playoff run as he had 26-5-6-2 on 44% in the 2015 Finals. I don't want to hear any excuses about Curry having a better team in 2015, because the only reason the Clippers beat the Warriors in 2014 was because they had the better team, not because of Paul, as Curry outplayed Paul in that series. Of course the 2015 Warriors were better than Chris Paul's teams, because Curry was on the team. Curry wouldn't have choked away a 3-1 lead and a 13-point 4th quarter lead in Game 6 by dropping 1-6 FG, 1 reb, 0 ast, 0 stl, 0 blk in the 4th quarter before a garbage time 3, especially with no Patrick Beverly in the series.

Even in 2013, Curry proved he was superior than Paul at carrying a team, when he took a mediocre 6-seed Warriors team past the favored Nuggets with Jarret Jack as his 2nd-best player. Barnes and Thompson played very mediocre with 15-6-1 on 46% and 15-4-2 on 46%. Curry then took the Warriors to 6 games against the Spurs with very mediocre help. Paul has never in his life led a team as mediocre as the 2013 Warriors past the first round, and Curry put up a good fight against a Spurs team that made it to Game 7 of the Finals.

Whereas Paul has never played a playoff team that even reached the Finals in the first place, meaning that he's not even playing against the best teams and still losing like the overrated PG he is. Paul has never won a playoff series without homecourt, so he never would have had a chance of carrying the 2013 Warriors like the vastly superior Steph Curry did, and never played a team near the level of competition that Curry did like the 2013 Spurs and 2015 Cavs who made the Finals. 

Despite Curry's poor performance in the 2016 Finals, his overall Finals run of 25-6-5 on 44/40/92 only further proves his superiority over Paul, having maintained those averages for 3 rounds (injured in Round 1) and with his averages depressed from playing 7 of those 18 games against a title team in a series where Curry greatly underperformed.

3. Chauncey Billups

2009 1st Round 
Chauncey Billups
23-4-7 on 48%, 1.2 TOpg and 66% 3PT

Chris Paul
17-4-10 on 41%, 4.8 TOpg

Billups scored way more efficiently and was the way better playmaker, Paul had quadruple the turnovers as Billups. Billups had a 6:1 ast:to ratio to Paul's 2:1 This was after CP3 had his best statistical year, joining Magic and KJ as the only players to average 20-10 on 50% in a season (Magic and KJ did it twice each).

Career-wise, Billups isn't as impressive statistically, but Paul pretty much explains the difference between himself and Billups here, albeit unintentionally. 

"...He's (Billups) always been a winner... you see some people who, you know, can go out and score 25, 30 points every night, but their teams always lose. He's just a big time winner."

Paul is the guy that can put up numbers every night, but not lead his team anywhere. He's basically Tracy McGrady, but with a few first round wins under his belt. Billups is the guy who, regardless of his statistical production, can turn mediocre teams into title contenders, something which Paul can't do regardless of his statistical production.

It seems like a strange comparison to make, but Billups vs Paul is similar to Russell vs Wilt. Guys like Billups and Russell make their teams successful, but in comparison players like Paul and Wilt are the guys who put up numbers, but don't have what it takes to bring their teams to the next level, or in Wilt's case, not nearly as often as Russell. And although Billups and Russell's numbers don't always look great, they can put up big numbers when it's needed in addition to making their teams successful (Russell along with Hakeem is the only center to lead a championship team in points (1962) and assists (1965), and set the NBA Finals FG% record in 1965). Paul can only do the former.
Chris Paul was totally outplayed and exposed by
past-prime Billups in the 2009 Playoffs. Though Billups
wasn't always dominant statistically, he was always
consistent at turning his teams into winners, and
he could still deliver big numbers when needed. Paul
usually puts up good numbers, but can't do anything near
as much as Billups in terms of making his teams better

For example, Billups completely smoked Paul in the 2009 Playoffs, and even outplayed Melo, after Paul had his best statistical year, joining Magic and Kevin Johnson as the only players to average 20+ ppg and 10+ apg on 50% in a season (Magic and KJ did this twice). Billups also outplayed Kobe in the 2004 Finals, so he could dominate statistically if needed, but not at the cost of his team success. 

On a side note, Paul only outplayed Kobe in the 2011 1st Round, which was the absolute worst playoff run in Kobe's entire career as a starter. The next round, Kobe was outplayed by Jason Terry, so for Chris Paul at his best to outplay Kobe at his absolute worst and lose in the first round is nowhere near as impressive as Billups outplaying Kobe in the 2004 Finals, after Kobe had averaged 25-5-6-2 on 42% through 3 rounds - while sharing the ball with Shaq - as opposed to 23-3-3 on 45% in the 2011 Playoffs for 2 rounds.

Billups from 2003 to 2009 was supremely successful at making his team better to a high degree, something Paul has never done. The Pistons had not made an ECF since 1991 before acquiring Billups, and then made 6 straight ECF under Billups, including 2 NBA Finals and a championship. Billups made the 2007 and 2008 ECF without the help of 4x DPOY Ben Wallace, and Billups also didn't have Larry Brown after the 2005 Finals, yet still made 3 more ECF without the Hall of Fame coach. Granted, the East was weak after 2006, but likewise the 2009 Pistons were so weak without Billups that they went from 6 straight ECF to 39-wins and a first-round sweep in the weak East, even with Rasheed, Prince, and Hamilton on the team, after going to 6 straight ECF with Billups.

Billups then came to the tougher Western Conference, and picked up where he left off, taking the 2009 Nuggets from a first round 8-seed sweep in 2008 to the 2009 WCF, while completely exposing and outplaying Paul in the process. In his first year in the tough Western Conference, Billups did what Paul hasn't been able to do in his entire career, and led a mediocre first round team to the 2009 WCF. And this wasn't even prime Billups. Billups proved that he could take any 8-seed team in the East or West that would normally get swept in the first round - even a losing 39-43 Pistons team, and make them a Conference Finals contender, regardless of his statistical production. That's far more impressive than a guy who puts up first-round inflated playoff stats and never played a playoff team that was good enough to make the Finals. Chris Paul is the guy you want on a fantasy team, but Billups is the guy you want on a championship team

Billups also elevated Carmelo's game to a whole other level while playing with him in Denver. As of 2015, Carmelo has shot 50% in only 15 out of 66 playoff games in his career, but 10 of those 15 games came while playing with Billups in 2009 and 2010. Carmelo shot at least 50% in 10 out of 22 playoff games with Billups, but only shot 50% in 5 out of 44 of his remaining playoff games. Rip Hamilton also averaged 20+ ppg in 5 of 6 playoff runs with Billups from 2003 to 2008, but only 13.3 ppg and 13.0 ppg in his other 2 playoff runs as a starter without Billups.

Paul has never shown that he can elevate his team or teammates like Billups did. If you want empty stats, take Chris Paul, but your team damn sure isn't going anywhere. If you want your team to win games and make several Conference Finals, at the very least, and a guy who can still outplay superstars like Kobe (2004), Melo (2009), and Paul (2009) when he has to, Billups is the clear and obvious choice.

4. Steve Nash
Steve Nash was also vastly superior to Paul, both statistically and team-wise. Nash also shot over 50% in 6 seasons, something Paul only has done once, making Nash the vastly more efficient player as well. In his first season in Phoenix, Nash took the Suns from 29 wins to 62 wins in 2005, with Nash as the only major addition to the roster. And he led them to the 2005 WCF, a place that Paul still can't reach. 

Joe Johnson had an orbital bone fracture in the 2nd round against the Mavericks, causing him to miss the last 4 games of the series and the first 2 against the Spurs in the WCF. In spite of being undermanned, Nash still led his team to the 2005 WCF, which Paul can't do even with a fully healthy team.

The next year, after losing Joe Johnson to the Hawks and Amare to injury, Nash was still able to take the 2006 Suns to 54 wins (the only time Paul reached 50+ wins with the Hornets was in 2008, and that was 56 wins with Chandler, West, and Peja) and, of course, back to back WCF with an shorthanded team both times. Nash joined Magic and Kevin Johnson as the only players with multiple playoff runs of 20-10 past the 2nd round in 2005 and 2006, while dealing with Joe Johnson's injury and Amare's absence in those playoff runs, respectively.

Let's not forget that the 2008 Hornets were also an elite defense, top 5 in ppg allowed, whereas Nash under Dantoni never had the benefit of playing under an elite defense. The Suns were top 10 worst in ppg allowed each year that Nash was there. In 2010, Nash led the league in apg at age 36 and led the Suns to the WCF again, losing to the champion Lakers. Paul has failed to reach the WCF despite having the fortune of never playing a team that was good enough to make the Finals after beating him. Even at 36 years old, Nash was better than Paul ever was, leading the Suns to the 2010 WCF averaging 18-10 on 52/38/89.
The extent to which Nash turned around the
Suns far exceeds that of Chris Paul on his teams,
especially the 2006 WCF run with no Amare

Nash carried a team without his best PF to the 2006 WCF, and back from a 3-1 lead against the Lakers (whereas Paul chokes away 3-1 leads, you can only dream of seeing him come back from one). Even with a better coach in Doc Rivers, a 2x rebounding champ in Deandre, and arguably the best PF in the league in Blake Griffin, Paul can't lead that stacked team past the 2nd round. Under Nash, that Clippers team and the 2008 Hornets would be making multiple NBA Finals. Under Paul, the 2006 Suns with no Amare wouldn't even get out the first round.

Nash also has far superior intangibles than Chris Paul as a leader.
  • Mike D'antoni has an 0-8 playoff record as a head coach without Nash
  • Alvin Gentry made the playoffs only once in 9 seasons as a head coach without Nash, when the 1999 Pistons lost in the 1st round. Nash led both of these coaches to the WCF
  • Raja Bell never made the playoffs as a starter without Nash
  • Shawn Marion only has one playoff series of 15+ ppg without Nash, when he averaged 18.5 ppg on 37% in a 1st-round loss to the 2003 Spurs
  • Boris Diaw only has one playoff run of 10+ ppg without Nash, when he averaged 11.6 ppg in a 1st-round loss to the 2015 Clippers
  • Quentin Richardson never had 10 ppg in a playoff series without Nash
The only thing CP3 fans will be able to criticize Nash for is his defense, but need I remind you that in the playoffs, when it matters, Paul has almost always been outplayed by good PGs (Westbrook, Curry, Billups, Parker 2012)? So the defense argument isn't going to help Paul's case. Nash could be the worst defensive PG of all-time, and in spite of that he'll still be a vastly superior PG than Paul can ever hope to be. Not just superior, but vastly superior.

5. Jason Kidd
Jason Kidd, like Billups, doesn't look so good on the stat sheet in spite of his triple doubles, especially when you look at his poor FG%. That can easily be disregarded when you factor in a few things
  1. Jason Kidd is the best rebounding guard of all-time after 6-9 Magic Johnson
  2. Jason Kidd was vastly superior on defense than Paul. Not just superior, but vastly superior
  3. Jason Kidd was vastly superior than Paul in terms of making his teams better, and turning wack teams into contenders. Not just superior, but vastly superior.
The first one is easy to see, Paul never averaged more than 5.5 rpg in a season (2008/09, the year that he got exposed by Billups). Kidd has 13 seasons averaging 6+ rpg alone, which is a record for all guards, not just PGs. Not only that, but Kidd led the 2002 Nets in rebounding for the entire playoffs and Finals. A cool fact is that Jason Kidd is the last player to average a triple double in a playoff series, he did this in the 2002 ECF and 2007 1st Round. Kidd is also the only player to average a triple double in a playoff run past the 1st round, averaging 15-11-11 in the 2007 Playoffs for 12 games.
Paul can only dream of turning around
a team as weak as the Nets to the heights
that Kidd took them. Not to mention Kidd's
vastly superior rebounding and defense

Kidd was also way better on defense than Paul. After being the only notable addition to the Nets, who were a top 10 worst defense in 2001, they became a top 5 defense under Kidd in 2002 and top 2 in 2003. He also never had the benefit of an elite rebounder like Deandre Jordan or rim protector like Tyson Chandler during his time in New Jersey.

Kidd was also better at 1-1 defense. In 2006, he was actually able to lock down Dwyane Wade in Game 5 of the 2006 ECSF. This is the same Wade that shot 62% against the 2006 Pistons defense with 4x DPOY Ben Wallace and put up one of the best Finals performances of all-time in 2006. Imagine putting Paul on 2006 Wade? It would be like Westbrook exposing Paul x100. 

Even at age 38, Kidd was better defensively than Paul ever was in his overrated career. Just take a look at his great defense on Kobe Bryant in the 2011 WCSF and on prime LeBron in the 2011 Finals.

Lastly, Kidd could take a trash team like the Nets and make them an NBA Finals team. The 2001 Nets had 26 wins, then went to back to back 2002 and 2003 Finals. Granted, the East was weak then, but likewise the Nets were so bad they had 26 wins in the weak East. And in 2003, Kidd took the 60-win Spurs to 6 games in the Finals with an unbelievably bad supporting cast. On top of that, Kidd took the eventual 2004 champion Pistons to 7 games with basically the same roster, so Kidd could still make them an elite team regardless of the level of competition. Paul has never faced a playoff team that even made the NBA Finals, let alone win the title, in any of his playoff series, so it's doubtful that he would take Kidd's Nets teams, who were worse than any of Paul's teams, including the ones that missed the playoffs, to the heights that Kidd did. 

Can you imagine Paul trying to take Kerry Kittles, Keith Van Horn, Kenyon Martin, Jason Collins, and Todd Mccullogh to the Finals or 7 games with the 2004 Pistons? Hell no. Kidd even had the same coach that Paul did in New Orleans, Byron Scott. Martin and Jefferson have never had 13 ppg or 10 ppg, respectively, in a playoff series without Jason Kidd, despite starting in multiple playoff runs (K-Mart with the 2009 and 2010 Nuggets, Jefferson with the 2010 and 2011 Spurs), but averaged 20+ ppg with Kidd in several playoff series.
Paul is not even close to Kidd when it comes
to making one's teammates better, on either end.

So clearly, Chris Paul is not a top 5 PG of this era. Westbrook, Curry, and Billups all outplayed him in head-to-head playoff matchups, and Westbrook and Curry had less help each time. Billups was also past his prime when he outplayed Paul, but that was after Paul's best statistical year. Kidd was way, way, better defensively and at making his team better. In fact, all 5 of these PGs are vastly superior at making their team better, including Nash who took the Suns without Amare to the 2006 WCF, whereas Paul has played with one of the best PFs of this era in Blake Griffin, a 2x rebounding champ in Deandre Jordan, and still hasn't done anything notable in the playoffs. Now that it has been indisputably established that Paul is not a top 5 PG of his era, let alone top 5 all-time, it's time to see other PGs that knock Paul off the top 10 all-time list. Again, the following PGs are not listed in any particular order of ranking.

6. Magic Johnson
I mean, it's pretty obvious isn't it? Magic is the best PG in history. His only weakness was that he wasn't elite defensively, but Paul can't deliver his defense in the playoffs when it matters anyway. Paul is only good for gambling for steals in the passing lanes, which Magic could do as well, leading the league in steals per game twice each in the regular season and playoffs. Magic also has an NBA record 4 playoff series averaging a triple double.
Magic is clearly the best
PG of all-time, Chris Paul is
not even top 5 of his own era

On top of that, Magic is the best playmaker of all-time. He is the only player to average 12+ apg in an NBA Finals, and he did that 6 times, including an NBA record 14 apg in the 1985 Finals. You can make a strong cast that Magic deserves 5 Finals MVPs. In 1985 Kareem won the Finals MVP, but his scoring was heavily dependent on his point guards' presence. Magic averaged 15.2 apg for the 1985 Playoffs and 14.0 apg in the 1985 Finals, both NBA records.

Kareem never won a scoring title without Oscar, and shot his personal best 60% FG in his first year with Magic. Magic was responsible for creating everyone's scoring opportunities in that 1985 Finals, and every NBA Finals for his Lakers. In the 1988 Finals, Magic was clearly the best player, but Worthy won Finals MVP just off of Game 7 alone.

In 1980, some say that Kareem deserved MVP, but although he was the best statistically, Magic was the reason for the team's success. Kareem missed the playoffs twice in his prime and was 2-3 in playoff series in his 5 prime seasons with no Oscar or Magic from 1975 to 1979, never winning consecutive rounds in that timespan. But his career was revitalized under Magic, who clinched the 1980 Finals without Kareem, proving who was the most valuable player in turning around the Lakers' misfortunes following the 70s. Magic also won the 1988 Finals with Kareem averaging 13-4-1 on 41%, can you imagine Paul winning a series with David West or Blake Griffin playing so poorly? I don't think so. 

Let's not even get into the stacked competition that Magic faced, Dr. J's Sixers, Bird's Celtics, the Bad Boy Pistons, Jordan's Bulls, Clyde's Blazers, etc. Even after Kareem, Cooper, and Riley were gone, Magic got them to the 1991 Finals and once again averaged 12.4 apg, when nobody else has reached 12 apg in the Finals. You can make a very strong case that Magic faced the greatest overall Finals competition of all-time. In fact, the 1983 Sixers have the 2nd-best playoff record at 12-1, and the 1989 Pistons and 1991 Bulls are tied for the 3rd-best playoff record at 15-2 apiece, or tied-2nd best in the 4-round format.

Chris Paul fans obsess over his AST:TO ratio, but the funny thing is Magic's playoff AST:TO ratio is still only barely behind CP3's (3.45 to 3.37) despite

- having the highest career APG in history
- it's much harder to maintain a high AST:TO ratio at a higher volume of APG
- playing 2.5 times as many games (190 to 76)
- facing 11 Finals/Title teams to CP3's 0.

if you only include 1980 - 1988 (The timespan of Magic's 5 titles) he actually has the higher AST:TO ratio between himself and CP3 (3.47 to 3.45) in almost twice as many games (144 to 76) regardless. 

To cap off, Magic is the only player to average at least 20+ ppg, 10+ apg in a Finals run (1991) or title run (1987), averaging at least 21-12 both times. Magic was supremely successful at making his team and teammates better, and at dominating statistically. Paul isn't even near Magic's league.

A quick summary of why Magic is by far the GOAT PG
  • NBA record 4 playoff series averaging a triple double
  • Only player with a title run or Finals run averaging 20-10 (ppg-apg). Averaged at least 21-12 in both 1987 and 1991 Playoffs.
  • NBA record 3 playoff runs of 20-10 past the 2nd round (1986, 1987, 1991)
  • NBA record 4 playoff runs of 20-10 past the 1st round (1986, 1987, 1990, 1991)
  • NBA record 2 title runs averaging at least 17-10-9 (1980, 1982). Wilt is the only other person to do this in a Title/Finals run, with 22-29-9 in 1967.
  • Tied-NBA record (Stockton) 2 playoff runs of 18-13 past the 1st round (1984, 1986)
  • Only player to average 18-13 in a Finals run (1984) or Title run (1985)
  • NBA record 5 playoff runs of 18-12 past the 1st round
  • NBA record 7 playoff runs of 18-10, 18-11, and 17-12 past the 1st round
  • NBA record 9 playoff runs of 17-10 and 17-11 past the 1st round
  • Only player to average 14+ apg past the 2nd round* (1985, 1986)
  • Only player to average 14+ apg in a title run (1985)
  • Only player to average 15+ apg past the 1st round (1985 Title run and 1986 WCF run)
  • Only player to average 18-14, 19-14, or 20-14 in a playoff run past the 2nd round* - 1986
*Johnny Moore averaged 22.5 and 14.6 in the Spurs 1983 WCF run, but only played 2 rounds due to a 1st-round bye, whereas Magic played at least 3 rounds in 1985 and 1986.
  • Averaged 12+ apg in 6 NBA Finals. Nobody else has done this even once.
  • Only PG to lead a title team in rebounding for the playoffs (1982)
  • Only PG along with Jason Kidd (2002) to lead a Finals team in rebounding for the playoffs (1982 and 1983)
  • Only PG with multiple Finals MVPs (3), should have been 5
Magic has faced 11 teams in the playoffs that either made the Finals or won it all. The only year in which Magic did not face a Finals/Title team was 1990, losing to Kevin Johnson's Suns. Indeed, Magic has almost as many playoff series against Finals/Title teams alone (11) as Chris Paul has playoff series in his entire career (12), though none of the teams that beat Chris Paul have even made the Finals, let alone win it all. 

Not only did Magic put up by far the most playoff records of all-time by a PG, he did so against infinitely better competition than Chris Paul faced, even with the weakness of the 1980s Western Conference.

7. Oscar Robertson
Oscar was also superior at making the guys around him better, Kareem in particular. In his first 2 seasons with Oscar, Kareem won the only 2 scoring titles of his career. In his first season with Oscar, Kareem won the championship and Finals MVP. In his last season with Oscar, the Bucks made Game 7 of the 1974 Finals. When Kareem got shut down by Thurmond in the 1972 Playoffs, it was Oscar's running of the offense that made Dandridge the leading scorer for the series (after Kareem's best scoring season) and let the Bucks live for another day. When Oscar played injured in the next round, Kareem and the Bucks lost.

Chris Paul can never and will never come close
to elevating the guys around him like Oscar did
with Kareem. Blake Griffin would be considered an
all-time great by now if he was playing alongside Oscar.

 As soon as Oscar left, Kareem missed the playoffs the next 2 years in his prime. Oscar took Kareem to 2 NBA Finals, a championship, 2 scoring titles, and as soon as Oscar retired, Kareem never sniffed those accomplishments until Magic Johnson came along. Oscar was one of the all-time greats at making the guys around him better, along with putting up good statistical numbers. Oscar is the only player to put up not only 20+ ppg 10+ apg in 5 different seasons, but 5 seasons of 30+ ppg 10+ apg.

Oscar also took his 1963 Royals team to 7 games against the nearly unbeatable Bill Russell's Celtics (only in 1967 did a healthy Bill Russell lose a playoff series) before Kareem was even in the league and dropped 43 points in that Game 7. So Oscar could lead his own team as well. It's because of Oscar, along with Magic, that Kareem is a top 10 player of all-time. Had Paul been the one in Oscar or Magic's position, Kareem wouldn't have had nearly as much success. Paul can only dream of elevating the guys around him to the degree Oscar (and Magic) did with Kareem, on top of matching Oscar's individual dominance. 

8. Kevin Johnson
To read even more detail on Kevin Johnson, go here.
Kevin Johnson has a much, much greater number of playoff records
than Chris Paul, and did more with lesser teams against better competition
Kevin Johnson is the most underrated PG of all-time, and way better than the most overrated PG of all-time, Chris Paul. It is an objective, logical, statistical, documented, and historical fact (not opinion) that Kevin Johnson is a far superior player than Chris Paul on both the team and individual levels. Keep in mind that KJ was dealing with severe hernia injuries for a little more than half of his prime years, starting in the beginning of the 1992/93 season.

Kevin Johnson's Playoff Records

1. NBA records for most playoff runs (ppg-apg) of
- 20-8 past the 1st Round (5)
- 21-8 past the 1st Round (5)
- 20-9 past the 1st Round (5)
- 21-9 past the 1st Round (5)
- 22-8 past the 1st Round (4)
- 23-8 past the 1st Round (4)
- 22-9 past the 1st Round (4)
- 23-9 past the 1st Round (4)
- 24-8 past the 1st Round (2) - Tied with Isiah, Oscar, Westbrook
- 24-9 past the 1st Round (2)
- 22-10 past the 1st Round (2)
- 23-10 past the 1st Round (2)
- 22-11 past the 1st Round (2)
- 23-11 past the 1st Round (2)

2. Only player to average
- 22-12 or 23-12 in a playoff run past the 2nd round

3. 2nd all-time, behind Magic Johnson, in playoff runs (ppg-apg) of
- 20-10 past the 1st Round (3)
- 21-10 past the 1st Round (2)
- 21-11 past the 1st Round (2)
- 20-9 past the 2nd round (2) - Tied with Nash
- 21-9 past the 2nd round (2)
- 20-10 past the 2nd round (2) - Tied with Nash
- 21-10 past the 2nd round (2)

Chris Paul's Playoff records

1. Highest AST:TO ratio in a playoff run past the 1st round (min. 11 APG)

 Other players have higher AST:TO ratios with less APG however
- Fat Lever - highest AST:TO ratio past 1st Rd (min. 3.5 APG)
- Johnny Moore - highest AST:TO ratio past 1st Rd (min. 8, 9, or 10 APG)

2. Tied-Most all-star teams (9) without passing the 2nd round with Dominique Wilkins
- however, Dominique lost to 2 championship teams (86 Celtics, 93 Bulls)
- CP3 has never faced a team that even made the Finals after beating him

3. Most playoff games (76) without reaching a Conference Finals
- despite the luxury of never having to face a Finals/Title team

Not only did KJ set a significantly higher number of playoff records than CP3, he did it against significantly better competition. KJ lost to 6 teams that either made the Finals or won it all. CP3 faced 0 teams that even made the Finals after beating him, let alone win it all. In each of KJ's playoff runs where he averaged those numbers under his list of records, he lost to either a Finals or Title team. KJ also played with lesser supporting casts than CP3 in his pre-Barkley years, and even when he had Barkley he played significantly better playoff competition regardless in 3 championship teams to CP3 facing 0 teams that even made the Finals.

So KJ was putting up far more impressive statistical performances in the playoffs than Paul, while playing more games per playoff run, in the later rounds, and against vastly superior competiton. Not just superior competition, but vastly superior competition. KJ was clearly the vastly superior playoff performer, and in big games like Game 7 vs the 1995 Rockets. KJ was vastly superior statistically, in terms of making his teams better, doing more with less, and against better competition, and especially in the playoffs. KJ is not just a superior PG than Paul, but a vastly superior PG.

Kevin Johnson and Chris Paul compared to other great PGs

 Only players to average 20-9 (ppg-apg) in multiple playoffs past the 1st Round
- Kevin Johnson x5 (1989, 1990, 1992, 1994, 1995)
- Magic Johnson x4 (1986, 1987, 1990, 1991)
- Steve Nash x2 (2005, 2006)
- Deron Williams x2 (2008, 2010)
- Bob Cousy x2 (1955, 1957)


Oh, what a surprise. The overrated Chris Paul is not on the list.


Only players to average 20-9 (ppg-apg) in multiple playoffs past the 2nd Round
- Magic Johnson x3 (1986, 1987, 1991)
- Kevin Johnson x2 (1989, 1990)
- Steve Nash x2 (2005, 2006)


Oh, what a surprise. The overrated Chris Paul is not on the list.


Only players to average 21-9 (ppg-apg) in multiple playoffs past the 1st Round
- Kevin Johnson x5 (1989, 1990, 1992, 1994, 1995)
- Magic Johnson x4 (1986, 1987, 1990, 1991)
- Deron Williams x2 (2008, 2010)


Oh, what a surprise. The overrated Chris Paul is not on the list.


Only players to average 21-9 (ppg-apg) in multiple playoffs past the 2nd Round
- Magic Johnson x3 (1986, 1987, 1991)
- Kevin Johnson x2 (1989, 1990)


Oh, what a surprise. The overrated Chris Paul is not on the list.


Only players to average 20-10 (ppg-apg) in multiple playoffs past the 1st Round
- Magic Johnson x4 (1986, 1987, 1990, 1991)
- Kevin Johnson x3 (1989, 1990, 1992)
- Steve Nash x2 (2005, 2006)
- Deron Williams x2 (2008, 2010)


Oh, what a surprise. The overrated Chris Paul is not on the list.


Only players to average 20-10 (ppg-apg) in multiple playoffs past the 2nd Round
- Magic Johnson x3 (1986, 1987, 1991)
- Kevin Johnson x2 (1989, 1990)
- Steve Nash x2 (2005, 2006)


Oh, what a surprise. The overrated Chris Paul is not on the list.


Only players to average 21-10 (ppg-apg) in multiple playoffs past the 1st Round
- Magic Johnson x4 (1986, 1987, 1990, 1991)
- Kevin Johnson x3 (1989, 1990, 1992)
- Deron Williams x2 (2008, 2010)


Oh, what a surprise. The overrated Chris Paul is not on the list.


Only players to average 21-10 (ppg-apg) in multiple playoffs past the 2nd Round
- Magic Johnson x3 (1986, 1987, 1991)
- Kevin Johnson x2 (1989, 1990)


Oh, what a surprise. The overrated Chris Paul is not on the list.


Only players to average 21-11 (ppg-apg) in multiple playoffs past the 1st Round
- Magic Johnson x4 (1986, 1987, 1990, 1991)
- Kevin Johnson x2 (1989, 1992)


Oh, what a surprise. The overrated Chris Paul is not on the list.

 Only player to average 22-10 and 23-10 and 22-11 and 23-11 (ppg-apg) in multiple playoffs past the 1st Round
- Kevin Johnson x2 (1989, 1992)

Oh, what a surprise. The overrated Chris Paul is not on the list.

Would be a record 3 runs of 22-10, 23-10, 22-11, and 23-11 apiece past the 1st Round if not for 1990 Playoff injuries instead of his record of 2 to begin with.

Would be a record 2 runs of 22-10, 23-10, 22-11, and 23-11 apiece past the 2nd Round if not for 1990 Playoff injuries. Nash (2005) and Westbrook (2016) met all of these criteria once each along with KJ (1989) in a run past the 2nd Round.

Only players to average 23-12 (ppg-apg) in a playoff run past the 1st Round
- Kevin Johnson x1 (1989)
- Magic Johnson x1 (1990)


Oh, what a surprise. The overrated Chris Paul is not on the list.


Only player to average 22-12 and 23-12 (ppg-apg) in a playoff run past the 2nd Round
- Kevin Johnson x1 (1989)
- Johnny Moore averaged 22.5 - 14.6 in the Spurs' 1983 WCF run, but only played 2 rounds due to a 1st-Round bye, whereas KJ played 3 rounds.

 Oh, what a surprise. The overrated Chris Paul is not on the list.


Only player with multiple 22-9 or 23-9 (ppg-apg) runs past the 1st Round
- Kevin Johnson x4 - 1989, 1992, 1994, 1995


Oh, what a surprise. The overrated Chris Paul is not on the list.


Chris Paul averages 21 ppg and 9.4 apg for his playoff career, so the above statistical comparisons of 20-9, 21-9, 20-10, etc. are absolutely a valid criteria. Unlike Kevin Johnson, Chris Paul is unable to consistently maintain those averages when playing in longer playoff runs, heavily diminishing the value of his playoff statistics.


Every playoff run of Kevin Johnson's past the 1st Round ended against a team that went on to make the Finals or win it all (6 times in 9 seasons as a full-time starter). On the other hand, none of the teams that beat Chris Paul in the playoffs have even made the Finals.


Irrefutable fact - Not only did KJ accumulate a much, much, larger number of notable playoff records than CP3. He did so while playing against much, much, much, much better competition.
Kevin Johnson led his own Suns teams with no Barkley
to back to back WCF, while also upsetting prime
MVP Magic Johnson in 1990. Chris Paul can't lead a
team with 2x rebound champ Jordan, arguably the
best PF in the league in Griffin, and a better
coach in Doc Rivers past the 2nd round.
KJ was much better than CP3 when it came to making one's team and teammates better.

- Barkley had his 3 highest scoring playoff runs that lasted past the 1st Round while playing next to KJ (1993, 1994, 1995)
- Hornacek had his only 20+ ppg season, 20+ ppg playoffs, and all-star year next to KJ in 1992.
- Majerle only has one playoff run of 10+ ppg without KJ, a 1st-Round 3-game sweep in 1996.
- Majerle's only all-star years were with KJ.

 Kevin Johnson took the Suns to back to back WCF in 1989 and 1990, and this was before Barkley was on the team. His best teammates were 
- Tom Chambers - Eddie Johnson - Jeff Hornacek, Dan Majerle, Mark West

Can you see CP3 taking Tom Chambers and Jeff Hornacek past MVP Magic Johnson's league best record 63-19 Lakers with Cooper, Worthy, and coach Pat Riley like KJ did in the 1990 WCSF? Or dropping 46-10 in a game 7 like KJ against Hakeem's 1995 champ Rockets? Not at all.

Tom Chambers averaged 26, 27, and 20 ppg in the 89, 90, and 91 seasons with KJ.
Eddie Johnson averaged 22 and 17 ppg in the 89 and 90 seasons with KJ.

KJ's best teammates in the 2 games that he was injured in 1990 Playoffs
(G1 vs Jazz, G6 vs Blazers)
- Tom Chambers - 18 ppg on 10/32 FG (31%), 4.5 TOpg
- Eddie Johnson - 8 ppg on 4/15 FG (27%)

Chambers and EJ only had such great scoring in PHX due to KJ spoon-feeding them their offense and setting them up. Without him, they were horrible in the playoffs with PHX. In contrast, Blake Griffin averaged 30-15-9 on 52% in the 2 games that CP3 missed during the 2015 WCSF, getting the Clippers a 1-1 split on the road.

On the other hand, however, Blake Griffin averaged 30-15-9 on 52% without Chris Paul in the first 2 games against the 2015 Rockets, getting the Clippers a 1-1 split on the road. So Griffin would still put up great production regardless of Chris Paul's presence, whereas Eddie Johnson and Tom Chambers were absolutely useless without KJ. If anyone brings up Chambers and Johnson's good-looking season averages, all I have to do is bring up the 2 games that KJ was injured in the 1990 Playoffs to prove that those guys only had good numbers on the Suns because they were playing next to KJ. when KJ was out, those guys played like crap and lost. They were entirely dependent on KJ to spoon-feed their offense to them. 
The 1990 Suns lost both of the playoff games that KJ left due to injury/illness. They were 0-2 without KJ in the 1990 Playoffs when he left due to injury (<15 minutes) and 9-5 when he was healthy. Add in Game 1 of the 1993 1st round when the Suns lost to the 8 seed Lakers when KJ did not play, and KJ's Suns were 0-3 in the playoffs when KJ played less than 15 minutes due to injury or did not play at all during his time as a starter. More proof that KJ is MUCH better than CP3 at making the guys around him better. On a side note - the 2016 Blazers were missing both Griffin and Paul after Game 4 against the Blazers, not CP3 alone.

The Clippers are
- 1-3 in the playoffs when CP3 plays, but not Griffin, against the 2017 Jazz
- 1-1 in the playoffs when Griffin plays, but not CP3, against a better team in the 2015 Rockets
If you give KJ that stacked 2008 Hornets team or Paul's Clippers teams and he didnt run into someone like Hakeem's Rockets, they'd have no problem making it to multiple NBA Finals. you put CP3 on the Suns with no Barkley and he wont pass the 2nd round. Hell, he won't get them past the 2nd round even with Barkley. He has arguably the best PF in the league and a 2x rebound champ and still can't get it done today. Give KJ the West, Chandler, and Peja Hornets and he'll be sure to make multiple WCF runs at the least. 

Kevin Johnson also had a winning record in every season of his career as a starter when he played. The 1996 and 1997 Suns didn't have winning records because Kevin Johnson missed a lot of games, but when he played they had a winning record. KJ's teams almost always did worse in the regular season without him. Even if they didn't, we can always remember that in the playoffs when it mattered, they were 0-3 without him or with him injured during his time as a starter

1989/90 Suns = 51-23 (0.689 win%) with KJ and Conference Finals (beat MVP Magic) Suns = 3-5 (0.375 win%) without KJ 1990/91 Suns = 53-24 (0.688 win%) with KJ Suns = 2-3 (0.400 win%) without KJ The only years that KJ did not have as big impact are when Barkley was on the team, but even with Barkley on the team the Suns still sometimes did much worse without KJ 1992/93 Suns = 37-12 (0.755 win%) with KJ Suns = 25-8 (0.758 win%) without KJ (with MVP Barkley) Suns were 0-1 against the 8-seed Lakers in the playoffs without KJ, but they were 3-1 when KJ came back. Proof that the Suns were only good without KJ in the regular season, not the playoffs  1993/94 Suns = 49-18 (0.731 win%) with KJ Suns = 7-8 (0.467 win%) without KJ (with Barkley) 1994/95 Suns = 32-15 (0.681 win%) with KJ Suns = 27-8 (0.771 win%) without KJ (with Barkley) but then KJ outplayed Barkley in the 1995 WCSF especially Game 7 1995/96 Suns = 30-26 (0.536 win%) with KJ Suns = 11-15 (0.423 win%) without KJ (with Barkley) And the most impressive 1996/97 Suns = 39-31 (0.557 win%) with KJ Suns = 1-11 (0.083 win%) without KJ (no Barkley) The 1997 Suns were easily the worst team in the league without KJ and would be lucky to crack 15 wins. When he played, they had a very respectable 0.557 win% which is a 45 or 46 win pace. This was the last relatively healthy season of KJ's career, after this his injuries and hernias caught up to him. Even in his last good season, KJ had more team impact than Chris Paul can ever dream of. You can put a relatively healthy KJ on the absolute worst team in the league, and they will still be a solid playoff team at the worst. If you put Chris Paul on a 1-11 team they won't even crack 0.500 with Paul in the lineup. The 2010 Hornets team was only 23-22 when Paul played and 14-23 when he didn't play. he barely got them a 0.500 record and they were much better than KJ's 1997 team

In the 1997/98 season the Suns were 15-2 when KJ played 30+ minutes. He planned on retiring after the 1997 season but still had a huge impact when he got enough playing time the next season, even after his injuries. KJ always had a huge impact on his team's W-L column, either in the regular season or playoffs, during his pre-injury career, and to a far higher degree than Paul can ever dream of. The only reason Kevin Johnson isn't a top 5 PG of all-time is because of injuries that cut his career short. KJ is one of the top 3 or 4 PGs of all-time for prime or peak value behind Magic and maybe Oscar or Curry. Paul isn't anywhere near that class

Keep in mind that none of the teams that beat Paul went on to make the Finals, whereas all of the teams to beat Kevin Johnson in his playoff runs past the 1st round (6 times as a full-time starter) either made the Finals or won it all. So KJ was putting up far more impressive statistical performances in the playoffs than Paul, while playing more games per playoff run, in the later rounds, and against vastly superior competiton. Not just superior competition, but vastly superior competition. 

 KJ was clearly the vastly superior playoff performer, and in big games like Game 7 vs the 1995 Rockets. KJ was vastly superior statistically, in terms of making his teams better, doing more with less, and against better competition, and especially in the playoffs. KJ is not just a superior PG than Paul, but a vastly superior PG.

9. John Stockton
Stockton is superior than Paul for longevity, for having multiple playoff runs deeper than Paul's, being a superior playoff and regular season performer, being better defensively, and playing better competition. Throwing Paul against Stockton's competition like Magic/Kareem in 1988, and the 90s of Payton/Kemp (the 1996 team who locked down every Hall of Famer they went against), Jordan's Bulls, Hakeem's Rockets, etc. would have absolutely killed Paul. Stockton also played better in big games like Game 7 vs the 1988 Lakers (29-20 with 5 steals on 67%), Game 7 vs 1996 Sonics (22-8-7-4 on 60%), Game 6 vs 1997 Rockets (25-13 on 53% and the series-winning shot), (17-7-15 on 67% at age 37 in elimination Game 5 vs Sonics) etc. whereas Paul choked away his team's chances in all of his 2nd round exits as seen above. 

We already saw that Nash was better than Paul, and Stockton was better than Nash statistically, and under tougher defensive restrictions 

Steve Nash's 2 MVP seasons 
15.5 ppg 11.5 apg on 50%
18.8 ppg 10.5 apg on 51%

John Stocktons' five best seasons
14.7 ppg 13.8 apg on 57%
17.1 ppg 13.6 apg on 51%
17.2 ppg 14.5 apg on 51%
17.2 ppg 14.2 apg on 51%
15.8 ppg 13.7 apg on 48%

and Stockton was superior defender than Nash on defense as well. Stockton wasn't necessarily a 1-1 lockdown defender, though he was underrated in that aspect, but his help defense and instincts were exceptional. 

Being a 9x assist champ and 10x playoff apg leader also doesn't hurt, along with co-leading the Jazz to 5 WCF runs and 2 NBA Finals (against better competition than what Paul faces). Even at 37, Stockton co-led the 2000 Jazz to a 2nd round exit while leading the playoffs in apg, which is nearly all that Paul is good for in his prime.

One of the favorite stats that CP3 fans like to parrot is his claim to having the highest regular season AST:TO ratio in NBA history. Well, Stockton holds that record in the playoffs, when it matters most, with a 3.56:1 ratio. It's also worth nothing that Stockton made the playoffs every year of his career up to age 41, maintaining those averages for a much longer time on top of facing better competition and in longer playoff runs. Stockton also played 7 Finals/Title teams to Chris Paul's 0, in other words facing much better competition.
Stockton was also better than Paul statistically
while playing way better competition. Stockton
also did his job in co-leading the Jazz in multiple
WCF runs and 2 NBA Finals against Jordan's Bulls.

And on top of that, Paul has it easier than Stockton, and all 80/90s PGs, when it comes to putting up numbers thanks to more favorable rule changes, evidenced by Stockton's numbers going up following the rule changes.

By the time the rule changes came around, Stockton was a senior citizen.
15th season - 11.1 ppg + 7.5 apg (Age 36 - 98-99 season)
Then rule changes happened
16th season - 12.1 ppg + 8.6 apg (Age 37)
17th season - 11.5 ppg + 8.7 apg (Age 38)
18th season - 13.4 ppg + 8.2 apg (Age 39)
19th season - 10.8 ppg + 7.7 apg (Age 40)

Stockton's FG% increased every season from his 15th season to his 18th season. It was not until his 4th season after the rule changes at age 40 that Stockton regressed to the same production as his last season under the rule changes at age 36, and his apg was higher in every season post-rule changes than in 98/99 before the rule changes took place. Stockton would have loved to play under the more favorable rules for PGs that Paul benefits from. Even with that hindrance, Stockton still outperforms him against better competition. 

Prime Stockton in playoffs that only lasted 1-2 rounds
1988, 1989, 1990, 1991, 1993, 1995

18.2 PPG - 3.7 RPG - 13.4 APG
2.45 SPG - 0.29 BPG - 3.5 TOpg

49% FG - 83% FT
3.80 AST:TO ratio

Lost to 2 Title teams (88 Lakers, 95 Rockets)

Had Stockton had the statistical luxury that CP3 does, of playing only in 1-2 round playoffs in his prime, he'd have the highest playoff APG by a comfortable margin. 13.4 APG to Magic's 12.3 APG. Also would have the highest playoff SPG average, 2.45 to Baron Davis' 2.28.

Chris Paul playoff career 2008 - 2017
All Runs lasted only 1-2 rounds

21.4 PPG - 4.7 RPG - 9.4 APG
2.21 SPG - 0.09 BPG - 2.7 TOpg

48% FG - 85% FT
3.45 AST:TO ratio

Lost to 0 Finals/Title teams

Stockton's assist advantage (+4.0) is much greater than any of CP3's advantages combined (+3.2 PPG, +1.0 RPG, -0.8 TOpg) since it accounts for at least a 8 PPG advantage.

Even more proof of why Chris Paul's stats are incomparable to the real all-time greats, since they come under such easier circumstances. Prime Stockton would have the highest career playoff APG average, by a comfortable margin, and the highest career playoff SPG average if he only played in 1-2 round playoffs as Chris Paul did, and this is before factoring in that Stockton lost to 2 Finals/Title teams, an obstacle that CP3 never dealt with.

10. Gary Payton
Payton was also vastly superior to Paul, and his defense is the main reason. Paul as we saw was outplayed by Westbrook, Curry, and Billups in playoff matchups, and failed to make a mark on Parker's numbers in the 2008 WCSF.

Payton took on and locked down some of the toughest playoff matchups in history 
Imagine CP3 trying to guard Pippen or Jordan for long stretches? He couldnt even lock down 2008 Parker, and was outplayed by 2012 Parker, but 35 year old Payton shut him down. While prime Paul's overrated defense was exposed by Tony Parker and outplayed by Chauncey Billups, old Payton shut down Parker and played good defense on prime Billups in 2006 (but not 2004). 

 Gary Payton is easily the best defensive PG of all-time, it's not even close, and astronomically better than Paul on that end. No other perimeter player besides Jordan took on and locked down as many notable matchups. Defensively, GP absolutely destroys Paul.

Offensively, Payton might be a little behind Paul, but not by much considering he didn't benefit from favorable rule changes until after his prime
Putting a defensive legend like prime Payton
on the 2008 Hornets or Paul's Clippers, on
top of favorable offensive rules would lead
to multiple WCF runs at the very least.

 Gary Payton

In his prime, 1995-1999
6th season -  19.3 ppg + 7.5 apg (Age 27) 
7th season -  21.8 ppg + 7.1 apg (Age 28)
8th season -  19.2 ppg + 8.3 apg (Age 29)
9th season -  21.7 ppg + 8.7 apg (Age 30)

post 98-99 rule changes
10th season -  24.2 ppg + 8.9 apg (age 31) - 99-00 season 
11th season -  23.1 ppg + 8.1 apg (Age 32)
12th season -  22.1 ppg + 9.0 apg (Age 33)
13th season -  20.4 ppg + 8.3 apg (Age 34)

Payton's FG% increased every year from his 9th season to his 12th season, with only a 1.3% decrease in his 13th season. His scoring was also better from age 31-33 than it was from 27 to 30, and his assists at age 31 and 33 were the best of his career despite not having Shawn Kemp to lob to. Prime Payton under the modern rules probably would have been a 25-10 monster, or better, with his amazing defense on top of that. Under the same rules, GP's offensive numbers would look just as good, if not better, than Paul's, and this is not factoring in that 04/05 rules further made it easier for offensive players. That still wouldn't be enough to offset prime Payton's impact on D, as a 35 year old Payton still shut down Tony Parker in the 2004 WCSF as well as locking down Billups and Hamilton in 2006.

Payton's 1996 Playoff run was also better than any of Paul's, considering he locked down Stockton and Jordan, and averaged 22-5-7-2 on 50% through 3 rounds, under tougher defensive restrictions, prior to getting locked down by the best team of all-time and the best perimeter defender ever. Paul can't even make it past 2 rounds and 8 of his career 12 playoff series are spent in the first round, making his playoff numbers worth far less.

 The difference between Payton's defense and Chris Paul's is much, much greater than the difference between Paul's offense and Payton's. Payton's enormous defensive edge more than overtakes Paul's slight offensive edge (while playing 9 of 13 series in the 1st round and facing 0 Finals/Title teams). Since defense is half the game, it's clear Payton is a much greater individual point guard than Chris Paul.

11. Isiah Thomas
Isiah Thomas was also way better than Chris Paul. Along with Oscar he is the only player to average 20+ ppg 10+ apg for 4 straight seasons, or 4 seasons in general. Isiah is also the only player with Magic and Kevin Johnson to average 20+ ppg 12+ apg in a season, a class that Paul is far beneath as seen earlier. Isiah's Game 6 performance in the 1988 Finals against the Lakers is also better than any of Paul's playoff performances, and his 1990 Finals MVP cements that he is superior to Paul, dropping 28-5-7-2 on 54% against a great Blazers team. Isiah won both of his titles without a 20+ ppg playoff scorer, and with DPOY Dennis Rodman injured in the 1990 Finals. Rodman missed 1 game and had to play 2 games off the bench due to his ankle injury, after starting for the first 3 rounds.

 Isiah Thomas has the highest 3PT% for a Finals career of any player to average 15+ PPG at 46% 3PT. None of the players ahead of Isiah in career Finals 3PT% averaged 15 ppg for one NBA Finals series, let alone Finals career. The closest was Danny Green with 14 PPG in the 2013 Finals. Isiah averaged 22.6 PPG for his Finals career on 48/46/79, so he was far ahead of the other Finals 3PT% leaders in scoring volume. 

With Paul being a 2nd round exit at best, and spending 8 of his 12 career playoff series in the first round, and against weaker opponents than Isiah's (Bird, Magic, Jordan) makes it no debate. Isiah won in a harder era, with better regular season and playoff performances, beat better competition, and led his team to two championships. Even in 1989 when Dumars won Finals MVP, Isiah was the best player in the playoffs, leading the Pistons in points, assists, and steals, and leading Dumars in 5/5 categories. Isiah also led Detroit to their first Finals in 1988, being the clear best player for the playoffs and Finals, and was one questionable foul call in Game 6 of the 1988 Finals from achieving a 3peat. Those 3 Finals runs and 2 title runs as the best player by themselves vastly exceed anything Paul has achieved in his overrated career. 

In fact, Isiah is the only PG besides Magic Johnson to lead a team to the championship as the best player multiple times, though Curry will probably join them. That alone surpasses anything the overrated Chris Paul has done, especially factoring in that he never played the best playoff teams and still continued to lose. Paul's played on a Clippers that is more than good enough to contend and hasn't been good enough to make them legit contenders past the 2nd round. 

Isiah's playoff career (9 of 23 series in the 1st round)
20.4 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 8.9 apg on 44%

Chris Paul (9 of 13 series in the 1st round)
21.4 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 9.4 apg on 48%

Isiah's stats are slightly lower, but for a few reasons

1. Isiah played 14 of his 23 playoff series (61%) past the 1st round, whereas Chris Paul only played 4 of his 12 playoff series (33%) past the 1st round. In fact, Isiah has more playoff series past the 1st round alone (14) than Paul does in his entire career (13).

2. Isiah played against far superior competition. None of the teams that beat Chris Paul went on to even make the Finals. Isiah faced 6 Finals/Title teams in the 1985 Celtics, 1987 Celtics, 1988 Lakers, 1989 Lakers, 1990 Blazers, and 1991 Bulls.

3. Isiah played 111 playoff games to Paul's 76. The fact that Isiah played much more often, in longer playoff runs, and after his prime yet still has stats just slightly behind prime Chris Paul's heavily inflated numbers shows how much vastly superior Isiah is.

Isiah's numbers are far more impressive considering he had to play more games per playoff run, against better opponents, and while leading his team to 2 championships. Isiah Thomas had 0 teammates averaging 20+ PPG or 11+ RPG during any of the 1988, 1989, and 1990 Playoffs during his 3 consecutive Finals runs and back-to-back title runs. Meanwhile Chris Paul needed a teammate with 22-24 PPG and 11-15 RPG in 3 of his only 4 single playoff series wins, all of which came in 1st round series alone.
Paul would have never stood a chance
against the stacked competition Isiah faced.
Deron Williams at his best was also better than Chris Paul at his best. The only reason that Deron Williams won't rank higher than Paul on the all-time list is because Williams became irrelevant after his 5th season and only had 3 good playoff runs. Although Williams' 2007, 2008, and 2010 Playoff runs are superior to any run by the overrated Paul, Paul was consistent for a longer period of time. Paul's consistency in this sense is relative only to Deron Williams, his "consistency" on an all-time scale isn't that impressive considering his multiple playoff failures and never playing the best opponents, and the fact that he was outplayed in nearly all playoff series against notable PGs.

The only players with multiple 20-10 (ppg-apg) runs past the 1st round are - Magic Johnson x4 - 1986, 1987, 1990, 1991 - Kevin Johnson x3 - 1989, 1990, 1992 - Steve Nash x2 - 2005, 2006 - Deron Williams x2 - 2008, 2010

In 2007, Williams' 2nd year and first year as a full-time starter, he led the Jazz to the 2007 WCF where they lost to the Spurs. Unlike Chris Paul, Williams legitimately had little help when losing to the Spurs. And the 2007 Spurs went on to win the championship, whereas none of the Spurs teams Paul played against even made the Finals. The only teammate of Williams in double figures for the 2007 WCF was Carlos Boozer, who had 21 ppg on 53%. 
Deron Williams' 2007, 2008, and 2010 runs
are superior to any playoff run of Paul's career.
Luckily for Paul, Williams' career fizzled out
after his 4th year as a starter, or else there would
be another PG ahead of him on the all-time list.
However, even Boozer's scoring was created for him by Williams running the offense. Only once in his career has Boozer had over 15 ppg in a series without Williams, when he had 17.4 ppg against the weak Nets in the 2013 1st Round. 

 Williams had 26-4-8-2 on 53% in the 2007 WCF. For the playoffs as a whole, Mehmet Okur was his only other double digit scoring teammate and he shot a poor 12 ppg on 39%. Boozer was his only good help, and even Boozer's production was dependent on Williams creating his opportunities for him.

In 2008, Williams led the Jazz to the WCSF, averaging 22-10 on 49% for the playoffs. They lost to the Lakers who went on to make the Finals. Again, Paul has never played a playoff team that went on to make the Finals or win it all, but Williams in his first 2 years as a starter was already putting up great numbers and while playing against Finals and championship-caliber teams. In 2009, Williams' Jazz lost in the first round to the eventual champion Lakers with Williams putting up 20-11 but on a sub-par 41%. Paul in 2009 was getting destroyed and outplayed by Chauncey Billups in the first round.

And in 2010, Williams' last relevant year, he averaged 24-10 on 45% for the playoffs and led them to the WCSF where they again lost to the eventual champion Lakers. Unlike Paul, Williams outplayed Chauncey Billups in the first round. And Paul clearly had far superior help compared to Williams. Deron Williams never played with anyone as good as Blake Griffin and never had an interior defender as good as Tyson Chandler - the main reason Duncan shot his 2nd-worst FG% of his playoff career in the 2008 WCSF. He also never had a 2x rebounding champ like Deandre Jordan. Then add in that Paul had David West in New Orleans and Jamal Crawford (6th man of the year) plus coach Doc Rivers in LA.

In his first 4 years as a starter, Williams led the Jazz to a WCF, lost to 3 championship teams and 1 Finals team, and averaged at least 20+ ppg and 10+ apg in 2 playoff runs past the first round. Steve Nash (2 times), Kevin Johnson (3 times), and Magic Johnson (4 times) are the only other players to do so. Noticeably, the overrated Paul is not included on that list. Prime for prime, Deron Williams was clearly superior than Chris Paul as a player, but he didn't maintain his prime for a long enough time to warrant a higher all-time rank.

Deron Williams 2007-2010 Playoffs
4 playoff series after the 1st round 
Faced 3 Title teams, 1 Finals team

21.1 ppg - 3.7 rpg - 9.6 apg 
46% FG - 40% 3PT - 80% FT

Chris Paul 2008-2009, 2011-2017 Playoffs
4 playoff series after the 1st round
Faced 0 Title teams, 0 Finals teams

21.4 ppg - 4.7 rpg - 9.4 apg
48% FG - 38% FT - 85% FT

Considering D-Will's far greater quality of competition, his numbers are more impressive despite Paul's +0.3 ppg, +1.0 rpg, -0.2 apg in a vacuum. Paul is better than DWill career wise because of longevity, but prime for prime DWill was better. He is the only player along with Magic and Kevin Johnson with multiple playoffs of 21-10 past the 1st round. Nash had multiple 20-10 runs but not 21-10. Though Nash is the only player with Magic and KJ to have multiple 20-10 runs past the 2nd round, D-Will had no 20-10 runs past the 2nd round.

Allen Iverson (2001 Sixers that he led to the Finals were 0-1 in playoff games he did not play) and Jerry West (NBA record 6 Finals of 30+ PPG) were also better than Chris Paul, but I tend to rank them as SGs instead of PGs, even though they could fill both roles. For that reason we won't discuss why they, too, are superior to Paul. 

 SECTION 1 - The Myth That Chris Paul Doesn't Have Good Help
SECTION 2 - The Myth That Chris Paul is an Elite Defender
SECTION 3 - Why Chris Paul's Playoff Statistics Are Not as Impressive
SECTION 4 - Chris Paul is Not a Top 10 Point Guard of All-Time

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